Here's a quick, incomplete recap of what we discussed last night. Please comment, correct, or start a different post.
Great discussion of Isaiah 50! John, thanks for bringing this forward! Andy's comment that this is the Chritian escatalogical journey was amazing. The break down of the chapter goes like this: Vs 1-3 God tells Israel that they are still His and He is their leader even though their kings are ungodly. Vs 4-9 is the Messiah who will come for them, and, vs 10, if they heed and follow him all will be well no matter what but, v 11, if they go it alone, they're doomed.
More claims to consider:
- Isaiah is supposed to be a comforting book for a people in captivity, written 200 years before the captivity occurred.
- Does teaching/ education have to hurt?
- Because God promised from the very beginning that Christ was coming, Isaiah assumed the promise of salvation was already met. It's like if your mom said she was going to put $ into your account so you went out and wrote checks the next day because you knew she was good for it. Even though temporally Christ had not come yet, Isaiah knew he would so everyone who would be saved was already. Is this still the dynamic?
Translations of the Bible by necessity have editorial religious interpretations. The capitalization within Isaiah 50: 4-11 is an example, since Hebrew does not have capitalization. The New American Standard Bible is the most literal, word for word, translation but its editors assumed the reader understood preexisting context. Word-for-word translation is not necessarily the best translation since context and meaning is more than a word-for-word exchange. [Think about it- what does "yea, right" mean?]
"Selah" means "put that in your pipe and smoke it."
Repentance: John's analogy of returning to the gas station before you ran out of gas since you would have to walk back for gas anyway was given a lot of thought. Dale disagreed with the concept, implicit in the analogy, of needing to return to a preexisting condition since sometimes you cannot. Sometimes Christians get stuck because they try to return to a point in their spiritual journey that is not available to them any more. Everyone agreed that repentance was adjusting oneself to ressume a path determined by God. (Psalm 139, Phillipeans 3: 4-13, and multiple Old Testament places were cited but I can't remember why).
Are there unforgivable sins? No- Jesus bore every sin on the cross and was forgiven. Dale's grandpa committed war crimes and told Dale, "No Dale. There are some things for which there is no forgiveness." Praise the Lord, a Lutheran minister met with him for years until he received forgiveness. Thank you Jesus. [Dear reader- Jesus was always ready to forgive him, but Parvin wasn't willing to take it. That's why the word is "receive." If you are suffering due to past sins, even if you murdered others in cold blood, He will forgive you if you ask. You will be forgiven and may adjust yourself to be on a path with God. It's that easy. Halleluia and amen!]
If you repent, do you have to turn yourself over to the authorities for crimes you commited? It depends. What does God want you to do? Restitution?
Hearing God's Voice: There are many Christians who never hear an audible voice. Discussion on sanity and the fear inherent in physically hearing God's voice. Other means of communication with God- understanding that some things He is not concerned about how you choose. Conscience, not a feeling but the knowledge of right and wrong (Romans 2: 14-16). Communication through scripture- most common. Communication through others. Communication through silence- all agreed this was worse than a divine rebuke. Knowledge "in your bones:" Dale's example of walking through faith in the direction that he has always known to be where he is supposed to be [some of us are more heard headed]. Communication in prayer. A feeling, a still, quiet thought that "sounds" like your thoughts but is in another direction than your norm. TEST all communication you believe is from God- does it conform to scripture and the nature of God revealed therein, does it bear fruit in accordance with the will of God, is it confirmed by others? Sometimes it's all about slowly "turning the boat" back towards Him- like Naomi's decision to return to Bethlehem in The Book of Ruth.
Image of God: Christians will judge angels (1 Corrinthians 6:3). Christ existed before the creation of the earth, and humanity was created in the image of Christ. God was human before there were humans. This makes Satan really angry- he's still trying to convince God that humanity is a bad idea and isn't worth the effort. Angels aren't all knowing; they look upon the earth and learn (Ephesians 3: 10 and 1 Peter 1:12). Satan's title in Job- the prosecuting attorney. Also a discussion that Satan's actions are to hurt God because he hates him because of....jealousy?
The Revelation: AJ has to do a seperate post so we can capture the depth of the discussion. He gave an exegesis of pre- post- and a- millinialist thought. Andy stated The Revelation was the most symbolic book of the Bible and had to be read carefully as such- and warned us all about wading into that morass... and there we went, "Yoiks! Yoiks!"
- Nero was The Beast. The prophecy was written between 60-90s AD, usually believed to be the 90s.
- "Abomination of the desecration" was bringing of the Roman eagles, which were worshiped by the legions, into the temple.
- The anti-christ was not a specific person. The term has a specific connontation of deification of emperors or leaders of state. Any ruler who is worshiped after Christ's birth is an anti-christ, and they exists every generation. The Dear Leaders of North Korea are anti-christs. Not as dramatic as Left Behind or The Omen...
Faith- The Slap Down: The definition of faith is trusting God and doing what he has called you to do. So the question is: do you live like you believe it?
Please add in anything I missed. I'm not sure about this format. What do you think?
I think you captured it very well. I put my thoughts about communication under the previous post. Lots of food for thought here.
ReplyDeleteA Literary Patois that captured not only the Spirit of the gathering, but actually conveys a sense of being there. I know, because I was. Great Job LIz! I particularly Liked the "Selah" part!!
ReplyDeleteAJ!!!! Still waiting on a Revelations Revealed post! We're not letting you off of the hook!
ReplyDeleteOn translations of the Bible, we assert that interpretation is necessary. This brings me to the paradigm of the Foundations of Christianity (i.e. scripture, reason, and tradition). I would argue that some denominations are unbalanced by reliance on one or two of the three. I grew up in a denomination that relied to heavily on scripture (read literal interpretation). Later in life, I refused to participate in my wife's church because I thought they relied on reason to the point of ignoring scripture. However, the more interesting question is how do we balance these foundations in our lives.
ReplyDeleteI would stand on the shoulders of the Giants that Preceded me... in this case C. S. Lewis. Prof. Lewis was a brilliant man, who (according to his Writings) came to a point in his Experience where he either had to Accept the Claims of Christ... or begin to Lie to himself. A Brilliant Man, made No Less Brilliant by his Belief in Jesus Christ as his Salvation. He was Unalterably Changed by that Knowledge. He did not cease to Consider Facts... that was Precisely Why he Believed, he just Understood them in a Clearer Light now.
ReplyDelete